Ducati 848 Evo vs. Suzuki GSX-R750 vs. Triumph Daytona 675R

Middle Ground

By Ari Henning, Photography by Cali Photography, Joe Neric

It doesn’t sound like much, but the 400 cubic centimeters separating a 600 from a 1000 is a massive chasm. It’s the difference between 100 and 150 horsepower; between carving a tight line and steering with the rear. Few manufacturers bother to build a bike that bridges the gap between the high-strung supersports and the big-brute superbikes, but for those that do the result can be a heavenly blend of sharp handing and broadband power.

How does one achieve this equilibrium? Is it with an 848cc twin, a 675cc triple or a 750cc four? Since it’s at a displacement disadvantage, we selected Triumph’s up-spec Daytona 675R to pit against Ducati’s hot-rodded 848 EVO and Suzuki’s newly refined GSX-R750. Through the benefit of additional displacement, these three middleweights boast greater midrange power, which makes them easier and more fun to ride on the street and more capable on the racetrack. The shrieking 600s are great, but there’s more to life than five-figure revs. And while liter-plus bikes offer arm-wrenching thrust, too much of a good thing can get you in trouble in a hurry. For those in search of that hallowed middle ground, one of these midi-superbikes might be just what you’re after.

Testing this trio took place over three days, with one on the street followed by two at the racetrack. Slogging through Los Angeles traffic and lapping our favorite test loop in the Santa Monica Mountains revealed these bikes’ street manners. For a more in-depth analysis, we took the bikes to a Fastrack Riders track day (www.fastrackriders.com) at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, California, where a combined 1500 track miles told us everything we needed to know about their performance at the limit.

Pages of notes were taken, lap times recorded, suspension changes documented and discussions held during roadside bike-swaps and between track sessions. The goal of this information gathering was simple: Determine which of these middleweights harmonizes the attributes of the two traditional displacement classes to strike the best balance.

Ducati 848 Evo
Best Lap: 1:37.4

There’s been a paradigm shift at Ducati. The Italian company’s pursuit of power is as relentless as ever, but as horsepower figures continue to climb, prices have mercifully remained the same. The 848 EVO was the machine that set this trend, maintaining the same $12,995 price tag as the standard 848 it replaces despite a number of upgrades.

The EVO treatment includes high-compression pistons, more aggressive cam profiles and larger throttle bodies aimed at increasing top-end power. The same Brembo Monobloc calipers used on the 1198 are now fitted to the 848, supplanting the two-piece pinchers employed last year. A non-adjustable steering damper has been bolted to the top triple clamp to calm the headshake that this bike’s increased output is expected to produce. Paint is light-absorbing matte-black; diehard traditionalists will have to fork over an additional $1000 for red. The only other discernable difference is audible: At idle and even at full throttle the 848 sounds suppressed. Blame it on the considerably longer underseat mufflers, no doubt put in place to meet increasingly stringent noise regulations.

Other components are the same as before, with a steel-trellis frame supporting Showa fully adjustable suspension front and rear. Strapped to Motorcyclist’s in-house SuperFlow dyno, the EVO put down 117 rear-wheel horsepower at 10,500 rpm with 62 lb.-ft. of torque on tap at 9500 rpm—8 lb.-ft. up and just 5 bhp down on the next-best Suzuki GSX-R750. Fully-fueled, the EVO weighs in at 430 lbs. That’s respectably light, but still 10 lbs. heavier than the featherweight Daytona and 6 lbs. more than the GSX-R.

A hard, high seat, low clip-on bars and unyielding suspension are stereotypical Ducati characteristics, and the 848 is no different. Wrist pain was a problem within miles of leaving the Motorcyclist offices in El Segundo, and every bump on Lincoln Boulevard was transmitted to the rider. While neither the Suzuki nor the Triumph exhibit any appreciable hot spots while sitting in traffic, engine heat collects under the 848’s uninsulated seat and wafts from the open side panels, roasting the rider’s butt and thighs.

Radiant heat and jarring ride aside, the Ducati is the roomiest of this bunch and proved the most accommodating for our taller testers. With a tall first gear and uncharacteristically soft power off idle, setting the bike in motion requires some clutch finesse, but the 848’s wet pack is much easier to modulate than the company’s traditional dry packs and shifting is smooth and precise.

Opinions improved once the road turned twisty. Then the bike’s taut suspension feels more appropriate and the grabby brakes less so. Getting up over the front end is the only way to make the 848 turn quickly, and even with your helmet stuffed behind the windscreen it wants to stand up mid-corner. And perhaps we’re accustomed to the 1198, but the middleweight’s midrange power wasn’t what we were expecting considering its displacement advantage. Rather than spreading power over a wide rev range, the EVO concentrates maximum thrust above 8000 rpm, with the rev limiter kicking in at 10,750 rpm.

As before, complaints diminished further when the bike was unleashed at the track. The aggressive riding position that felt torturous on the street was spot-on for the racetrack. After being fitted with Michelin race tires, we had Randy of In House Suspension give the 848 a once-over, reducing spring preload at both ends. With the suspension settled further in the stroke, the bike turned quicker and tracked better, although there was some headshake while powering out of turns. An adjustable steering damper would be beneficial.

Revving out the Ducati is the way to go, but keeping the motor on the boil is a delicate balancing act. Slam into the abrupt rev limiter and the Suzuki and Triumph disappear into the distance. Short-shifting is the best way to avoid this scenario. Running it lower in the revs makes the bike feel calmer, although judging by the way the EVO smears the rear tire and rockets off corners, it still has plenty of grunt.

With the strongest brakes and a stout fork, the 848 excels at decelerating and provides excellent front-end feel at turn-in and full lean. As with the other bikes in Ducati’s sporting lineup, the EVO isn’t easy to ride, but it rewards those who are willing to adapt. Keep your corner speed up, select gears carefully, get on the gas early and the Ducati is hard to beat around the racetrack. After all, that’s where it was meant to perform.

Off the Record

Barry Burke
Age: 50 | Height: 6’
Weight: 175 Lbs. | Inseam: 33 In.
I’m usually a big fan of Ducatis, but this 848 EVO came up short. It’s a tremendous amount of work to ride in a tight canyon, and the harsh suspension coupled with the lack of a heat shield under the cement saddle could be patented as a new form of birth control! The Suzuki’s motor is the best of the three, but with its soft suspension, narrow bars and tough gearbox, it was frustrating to try to ride fast. With a little work the GSX-R would be better than the Triumph, but in stock form the 675R wins. And why wouldn’t it? Aside from a hard-to-read dash, it’s practically perfect!

Suzuki GSX-R750
Best Lap: 1:35.9

Those seeking balance have long been drawn to Suzuki’s GSX-R750, a bike that’s bridged the performance gap between 600s and 1000s for decades. Absent from the 2010 lineup due to the economic downturn, the GSX-R is back for 2011 and better than ever. A lighter aluminum twin-spar frame now holds Showa’s Big Piston Fork up front, with the previous Nissin calipers replaced by Brembo Monobloc units as on the Ducati and Triumph. With its reshaped fuel tank filled to the brim, the GSX-R tips the scales at 424 lbs.—25 lbs. less than the last one we tested in ’08. A dark-blue patina applied to the frame and generous use of paneling textured to look like carbon-fiber spice up the styling without diluting the GSX-R’s signature look.

Engine tweaks include lighter pistons and conrods that help the inline-four zing up to 12,500 rpm, where its 122.1 bhp is in full effect. For torque the Suzuki stirs up 53.8 lb.-ft. at 10,700, meaning it’s more fun the faster it’s spun. A new close-ratio gearbox makes it easier than ever to keep the GSX-R on the boil, but it’s not necessary to get good acceleration. Midrange power has always been one of the 750’s strengths, and on the street the GSX-R feels strong even at four-digit revs. Power wheelies occur at every rise in the road, and shifting between corners is largely optional. Aside from some lag off closed throttle at low rpm, throttle response is superb and power builds in a predictable manner. Like the Ducati, the Suzuki’s exhaust sounds quieter than we remember, making an angry intake gargle the dominant sound.

The Suzuki’s ergonomics are at the other end of the spectrum compared to the Ducati’s, making it a top pick for the street. The seat is flat, low and soft. Relative to the perch, the clip-ons are higher and not nearly as far away as on the Ducati, resulting in as close to an upright riding position as one is likely to find on a sportbike. Wind protection is excellent due to a taller windscreen and wider fairing, and except for a short seat-to-peg distance and some itinerant vibrations, the GSX-R is easily the most comfortable bike in attendance. Three-position rearsets offer nearly an inch of adjustability, but even in the lowest position legroom is still at a premium.

Like the seat, suspension action is plush, especially in the rear. In town the compliant springs smooth bumps and cracks with aplomb, and ridden at a moderate pace in the canyons the bike’s handing feels rock-solid, although slightly sluggish. Get on the gas more, squeeze the brake lever harder and both ends start to feel soft. Even after we dialed-in more spring preload and damping, the GSX-R’s handling still felt imprecise and slow compared to its firm-footed competition at the racetrack. We would like to have raised the rear ride height to quicken steering, but didn’t have the necessary shims.

The GSX-R’s compact cockpit makes it the easiest bike here to move around on, but it took the most effort to transition from side to side and required a Herculean push/pull on the bars to get the bike through Fontana’s 100-mph Turn 1 chicane. Narrow clip-ons could be part of the problem, as the Suzuki’s bars measure an inch shorter than the Ducati’s and Triumphs, limiting leverage. While the GSX-R is less eager to change direction, it feels unshakably stable and follows the prescribed line until instructed to do otherwise.

The Suzuki’s superior horsepower is evident on the straights, where it blows the paint off the Ducati and the Triumph. On the track’s banked tri-oval, the 750 registered an indicated top speed of 166 mph—10 mph up on the other bikes. Considering its blistering acceleration, it’s a shame the GSX-R’s gearbox was so difficult to change at high rpm, no matter how deliberate our actions. This was never an issue on the street, but at the track sticky upshifts were a constant annoyance. Lowering the rearsets to improve the angle of the shift linkage helped but didn’t completely solve the problem.

Better acceleration gave the GSX-R an advantage between corners, but when it came time to shed speed the Suzuki’s rubber brake lines (the Ducati’s and Triumph’s are braided steel) made the lever feel spongy, eroding rider confidence. The 750’s saving grace at corner entry is an excellent slipper clutch, which kept the back end calm and allowed riders to downshift later, helping the GSX-R log the second-quickest lap time.

The Japanese bike has more versatility than its track-biased Italian counterpart, but comfort doesn’t cut it on a sportbike—it has to perform. The GSX-R750 is a terrific streetbike, and even with its mass-market suspension setup and budget brake lines, it works pretty well on the track, too. At $11,999 the Suzuki costs $1000 less than the Ducati—and only $400 more than its 600cc sibling—making it an excellent buy.

Off the Record

Zack Courts
Age: 27 | Height: 6’2”
Weight: 185 Lbs. | Inseam: 34 In.
The Triumph wins this shoot-out, hands-down. It’s got style on the street, poise on the track, and it’s a tremendous value. The Suzuki has muscle and is the most comfortable, but it isn’t particularly interesting. The Ducati is arguably too interesting, with a high-strung motor and punishing ergonomics. The 675R offers a great compromise, with Öhlins suspension that truly makes it a better and more fun bike to ride. And nifty add-ons like the quick-shifter spoil you immediately. When I realized the only complaints I could come up with were that the dash is a little hard to see and the seat was a tad firm, I knew I was sitting on a winner!

Triumph Daytona 675R
Best Lap: 1:35.2

We’ve always been a fan of the Daytona 675’s three-cylinder engine, but the same can’t be said for its chassis, which had a tendency to feel fidgety and run wide at corner exits. For 2011 Triumph took a cue from Ducati and assembled an R-model with upgraded suspension. Japanese suspension components were traded for Swedish Öhlins, an NIX30 fork up front and twin-tube TTX36 shock out back. Braking components are also from Europe; Italian Brembo Monobloc calipers replacing the Japanese Nissin units used on the base model.

Other improvements exclusive to the 675R include an electronic quick-shifter, pearl-white paint and carbon-fiber fenders, dash trim panels and muffler heat shield. The Daytona’s use of the genuine article makes the GSX-R’s “carbon fauxber” seem cheesy by comparison. Other changes for 2011 include a new dash and a taller first gear as used in the accessory close-ratio racing transmission. Yet despite rocking $4000 worth of top-tier suspension products, the 675R only costs $11,999—just $1500 more than the base model.

The Daytona’s 675cc engine isn’t much bigger than a typical supersport’s, but that small displacement bump and unique three-cylinder architecture make for one potent and flexible powerplant. Our testbike “spun the drum” to the tune of 111.1 bhp at 12,600 rpm, with nearly constant torque output that peaked at 48.4 lb.-ft. at 10,600 rpm. It’s the smallest and weakest of the middleweights, but at 420 lbs. ready to ride, it’s also the lightest.

The Triumph’s riding position splits the difference between the Ducati’s and the Suzuki’s, and although the posture is aggressive it’s not severe, and proved acceptable to all our testers. The seat is firm and slants toward the tank, but is nowhere near as punishing as the 848’s crotch-crushing wedge. Legroom is ample, and while there is a faint buzz in the footpegs around 6000 rpm, the smooth-spinning engine leaves things electric-bike-still everywhere else. Wide-set mirrors offer the best field of rearward view as well as the crispest images. Complaints are few: The white-on-blue LCD dash is difficult to read, and the quick-shifter doesn’t work at all throttle openings and engine loads. You quickly learn when to use it and when it’s best to employ the clutch.

Revving the Daytona unleashes a captivatingly silky sound that’s equal parts three-cylinder engine whir and exhaust note. Engine character is equally silky: Throttle response is instantaneous and power builds in an admirably linear fashion from idle to 13,000 rpm. There’s still a lot of revs left before redline, but thrust diminishes in the extreme of the upper register.

It may seem like we’re always championing Öhlins, but there’s a reason every MotoGP team runs their stuff! The Daytona’s new suspenders transform the way it behaves, attaining the fabled balance of a firm-yet-plush ride. Even on the most beat-up backroads, the Daytona was surefooted and settled, turning on a dime and tracking as if on rails. That stands in stark contrast to our 2009 long-term testbike, which showed a frustrating lack of stability when pushed hard.

No faults could be found with the Triumph’s handling or ride quality on the street, and at the track it needed the least fiddling before being deemed dialed-in. The Daytona turned the quickest and was the most stable once leaned over, leading to higher corner speeds and earlier throttle application as evidenced by the abundance of liquefied rubber on the edges of its rear tire. Bikes this responsive tend not to tolerate mistakes, but the 675R is amazingly forgiving. Everyone raved about its razor-sharp handling, slick quick-shifter (at full throttle) and unflappable composure. It’s the ideal dance partner on the track; ask more of it and it gladly delivers. It’s no wonder our testers logged consistently quick times on the Triumph, and that the Britbike turned the fastest lap overall.

The chink in the Daytona’s gilded armor is its brakes. They’re tremendously powerful, but when forcefully applied at triple-digit speeds produce an unsettling shudder. The Öhlins caliper mounts don’t employ locating dowels as on the previous Kayabas, so we suspected the calipers might be misaligned with the discs. Loosening the caliper bolts and then retightening them while simultaneously applying the brakes served to center the pads and significantly reduced (although didn’t eliminate) the sensation.

Even with those unsettling pulsations, after stepping off the Suzuki onto the Triumph, braking points could be moved a few bike-lengths closer to the corners. Not only will the 675R outbrake the GSX-R, it matches its acceleration off the apex and keeps the Ducati in check down the straights. The Suzuki might have the most power, but its chassis isn’t on par with its engine and its shifting issue was a pain. As a streetbike its supple suspension and stable handling are a boon, but as a sportbike those same characteristics are a bane. Some call it balanced, but in stock trim we call the GSX-R compromised.

We all knew the Ducati would be brutal on the street, but were openly expecting it to dominate at the track. When that didn’t happen, its overall rating plummeted. V-twins tend to be forgiving and flexible by nature, but the 848 EVO’s rev-happy engine isn’t. The Ducati has cachet, but the Triumph does too, with good manners to boot.

Triumph’s Daytona 675 was voted our Motorcycle of the Year when it came out in 2006, and if the MOTY feature earlier in this issue had a “Most Improved” category, the 675R would win that trophy hands-down. As it stands, the Triumph topped all our testers’ lists in nearly every category. Even if you never take it to the track (though we sincerely hope you do!), you’ll notice and appreciate the bike’s upgraded suspension for its ride quality and the way it puts you in total control. The 675R has the 848’s distinction, the GSX-R’s versatility and a character all its own. It’s also got our vote as the Best Middleweight Sportbike of 2011.

Off the Record

Ari Henning
Age: 26 | Height: 5’10”
Weight: 175 Lbs. | Inseam: 33 In.
I had high hopes for the Ducati, but its shortcomings on the street weren’t rectified at the track as I’d hoped. The Suzuki was the opposite: In stock form it’s a better streetbike than track machine. Braided-steel brake lines and a stiffer shock spring would surely help that. The Triumph manages to work well in all environs. After riding the 675R, I’m both impressed and pissed—impressed that it is so incredibly improved, and pissed that I was never able to get my long-term 2009 Daytona to work this well! It’s rare to find a motorcycle that is so comfortable on the street while being race-ready, but the 675R does it. Well done, Triumph!

2011 Ducati 848 Evo | Price $12,995

Tech Spec
Engine type:  l-c 90-deg. V-twin
Valve train:  DOHC, 8v desmodromic
Displacement:  849cc
Bore x stroke:  94.0 x 62.1mm
Compression:  13.2:1
Fuel system:  EFI
Clutch:  Wet, multi-plate
Transmission:  6-speed
Measured horsepower:   117.0 bhp @ 10,500 rpm
Measured torque:   62.0 lb.-ft. @ 9500 rpm
Corrected ¼-mile:   10.75 sec. @ 130.77 mph
Top-gear roll-on, 60-80 mph:  4.40 sec
Fuel mileage (high/low/avg.):   40/29/36 mpg
Frame:  Tubular-steel trellis with single-sided aluminum swingarm
Front suspension:  Showa 43mm fork with adjustable spring preload, compression and rebound damping
Rear suspension:  Showa shock with adjustable spring preload, compression and rebound damping
Front brake:  Dual Brembo four-piston calipers, 320mm discs
Rear brake:  Brembo two-piston caliper, 245mm disc
Front tire:  120/70ZR-17 Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP
Rear tire:  180/55ZR-17 Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP
Rake/trail:  24.5°/3.8 in.
Seat height:  32.2 in.
Wheelbase:  56.3 in.
Fuel capacity:  4.1 gal.
Weight (tank full/empty):  430/406 lbs.
Colors:  Dark Stealth, Ducati Red
Availability:  Now
Warranty:  24 mo., unlimited mi.
Contact:  Ducati North America, 10443 Bandley Dr., Cupertino, CA 95014 (408) 253-0499

Predictably the V-twin makes the most torque, but those wavering lines make riding the 848 a chore. That dip in the midrange is annoyingly apparent, and the top-end recovery is abruptly interrupted by the rev limiter.

The Ducati ranks last in comfort because of the slanted, rock-hard seat, exhaust heat and rigid ride. The 848 offers the most wiggle room, but the slanted seat encourages a forward migration that puts pressure on delicate equipment.

2011 Suzuki GSX-R750 | Price $11,999

Tech Spec
Engine type:  l-c inline-four
Valve train:  DOHC, 16v
Displacement:  750cc
Bore x stroke:  70.0 x 48.7mm
Compression:  12.5:1
Fuel system:  EFI
Clutch:  Wet, multi-plate slipper
Transmission:  6-speed
Measured horsepower:   122.1 bhp @ 12,500 rpm
Measured torque:   53.8 lb.-ft. @ 10,700 rpm
Corrected ¼-mile:   10.40 sec. @ 134.70 mph
Top-gear roll-on, 60-80 mph:  3.11 sec.
Fuel mileage (high/low/avg.):   37/27/33 mpg
Frame:  Aluminum twin-spar
Front suspension:  Showa 41mm Big Piston Fork with adjustable spring preload, compression and rebound damping
Rear suspension:  Showa shock with adjustable spring preload, compression and rebound damping
Front brake:  Dual Brembo four-piston calipers, 310mm discs
Rear brake:  Nissin single-piston caliper, 220mm disc
Front tire:  120/70ZR-17 Bridgestone Battlax BT-016
Rear tire:  180/55ZR-17 Bridgestone Battlax BT-016
Rake/trail:  23.5°/3.8 in.
Seat height:  31.9 in.
Wheelbase:  54.5 in.
Fuel capacity:  4.5 gal.
Weight (tank full/empty):  424/397 lbs.
Colors:  Blue/white, black/silver
Availability:  Now
Warranty:  12 mo., unlimited mi.
Contact: American Suzuki Motor Corp., 3251 E. Imperial Hwy., Brea, CA 92821 (714) 996-7040

The GSX-R750 has more of the 1000’s power than it’s entitled to. Torque builds quickly and is sustained across the rev range while horsepower climbs to astronomical heights. From the saddle the thrust feels smooth, linear and unending.

Even with its tight cockpit, the Suzuki is the most comfortable. A soft seat has a lot to do with that, as does a relatively upright riding position that keeps weight off your wrists. Too bad legroom is so limited.

2011 Triumph Daytona 675R | Price $11,999

Tech Spec
Engine type:  l-c inline-triple
Valve train:  DOHC, 12v
Displacement:  675cc
Bore x stroke:  74.0 x 54.3mm
Compression:  12.7:1
Fuel system: EFI
Clutch: Wet, multi-plate
Transmission: 6-speed
Measured horsepower: 111.1 bhp @ 12,600 rpm
Measured torque: 48.4 lb.-ft. @ 10,600 rpm
Corrected ¼-mile: 10.72 sec @ 131.11 mph
Top-gear roll-on, 60-80 mph: 3.39 sec.
Fuel mileage (high/low/avg.): 40/27/34 mpg
Frame: Aluminum twin-spar
Front suspension: Öhlins 43mm NIX30 fork with adjustable spring preload, compression and rebound damping
Rear suspension: Öhlins TTX36 shock with adjustable spring preload, compression and rebound damping
Front brake: Dual Brembo four-piston calipers, 308mm discs
Rear brake: Nissin single-piston caliper, 220mm disc
Front tire: 120/70ZR-17 Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP
Rear tire: 180/55ZR-17 Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP
Rake/trail: 23.9°/3.4 in.
Seat height: 32.7 in.
Wheelbase: 54.9 in.
Fuel capacity: 4.6 gal.
Weight (tank full/empty): 420/392 lbs.
Colors : Crystal white
Availability: Now
Warranty: 24 mo., unlimited mi.
Contact: Triumph Motorcycles of America, 385 Walt Sanders Memorial Dr., Newnan, GA 30265 (678) 854-2010

The Daytona lacks the big numbers of the other bikes, but its peak figures aren’t too shabby, and look at those lines! Curves this flat are what make Triumph’s triples so endearing. Spin it up or short-shift it, the 675R has power everywhere.

Narrow and high, the Daytona’s riding position feels purposeful but not uncompromising. Legroom is ample and the seat-to-bar distance is agreeable. With no appreciable vibrations to bother you, all the Triumph needs is a softer seat.

Michelin Power One Race Tires
From Paris with Traction
Words: Ari Henning
Photo: CaliPhotography

The Ducati, Suzuki and Triumph all come fitted with track-worthy tires, but to eliminate traction as a limiting factor in our track testing, we outfitted the bikes with race rubber. Dale Keiffer of Racer's Edge Performance (www.racersedgeperformance.com) is Michelin's West Coast distributor, and fitted our bikes with the French firm's Power One Race tires.

Although identical in appearance, the Power One Race tires are distinctly different from the standard dual-compound Power One road/track rubber. To start with, the race tires have additional carcass plies and come in various compounds (A, B and V front; A, B and C rear) to meet the needs of different circuits, conditions and preferences. We selected the "C" (medium) rears and the "V" fronts, the latter having an even more pointed profile than the road/track tire or the normal race tire.

The aggressive "V" fronts served to sharpen all the bikes' handling, quickening turn-in while providing good stability at full lean. Few front-end slides were experienced, and those that were proved to be rider-induced and inconsequential. The Power One Race tires are competition-grade and thus designed to offer optimum traction for one 20-minute sprint, yet they endured all-day abuse and remained remarkably consistent. Traction was outstanding, feedback plentiful and slide behavior predictable and manageable.

The Power One Race tires are fairly pricey, ringing in at $170 for fronts and $230-$240 for rears, but you get what you pay for. For greater durability and similar handling, the standard Power Ones are an excellent alternative for track days and spirited street riding.

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Sorry about that, you should now see the correct dyno graph.
I think the HP/torque graph for the 675R is missing on page 4...
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